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Thank you for this considered and detailed "rebuttal", Bill.</div>
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I've been a Guide/Charon/Find_Orb user for a lot of years and honestly, the only three things I've ever found truly lacking are:<br>
<br>
A. NEO ephemerides as accurate as JPL's. Hardly a show-stopper - I just go to Horizons for accurate times/positions during really close approaches.</div>
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B. Saturnian satellite information akin to that for Jupiter.</div>
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C. Up-to-date double star information, particularly orbital positions for close binaries, but I suspect that's a limitation of the WDS source data.</div>
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I use Find_Orb more than I do Guide these days (and Tycho Tracker has replaced Charon in my toolset), but the suite of tools has been unmatched for decades, in my opinion.</div>
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Great work, Bill - and thank you for your service to the community.</div>
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Grant W64.</div>
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<b>From:</b> guide-user <guide-user-bounces@projectpluto.com> on behalf of Bill Gray <pluto@projectpluto.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 28, 2025 5:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> guide-user@projectpluto.com <guide-user@projectpluto.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [guide-user] Is there any chance someone will pick up the guide 9 update?
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<div style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi all,<br>
<br>
First, my thanks for the many kind thoughts about the software.<br>
I've been giving a fair bit of thought over the last decade about what<br>
to do with it. I'm still puzzling it out, but I hope the following<br>
ramble gives you some idea of what might happen.<br>
<br>
I no longer have any real interest in profiting from Guide. It was<br>
a delightful way to earn a living for a couple of decades -- more on<br>
that below -- but I've moved on to other projects. However, it's still<br>
(mostly) usable software, and I wouldn't want it to just vanish.<br>
<br>
The ISO itself is available for free download at :<br>
<br>
<a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ynKy_hfbr2duvCXyHDxFj0KPleNaHKC8/view?usp=sharing" id="OWAc6aeca52-71b5-3388-2ddf-2b8dc0881e79" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ynKy_hfbr2duvCXyHDxFj0KPleNaHKC8/view?usp=sharing</a><br>
<br>
You'll get a warning that no preview is available and that, at ~3.3<br>
GBytes, it's too large to scan for viruses. After that, however, you<br>
can download it, put it on a DVD, and install it. (I think you can<br>
put it on a USB drive and install from that, though I've not tried it.)<br>
<br>
I do want to post the source code, and expect to do so. There are<br>
problems, though.<br>
<br>
As has probably been apparent, I'm not very interested in<br>
maintaining Guide 9, and I would not strongly encourage others to try<br>
to do so. Generally speaking, I've been perfectly happy to post source<br>
code for all to use :<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.github.com/Bill-Gray" id="OWA350bcdd6-6e30-8d98-f7c8-851545be43e0" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://www.github.com/Bill-Gray</a><br>
<br>
In particular, the 'lunar', 'sat_code', and 'jpl_eph' libraries<br>
form some of the underpinnings for Guide, supplying the functions for<br>
basic astronomical calculations, artificial satellite positions, and<br>
high-precision planetary ephemerides. Find_Orb uses these as well, and<br>
many people are getting good use of the source code in their own projects.<br>
<br>
I have carefully revised those libraries before posting them. The<br>
code is commented and makes sense. If a potential client saw them,<br>
they would be (or at least should be) impressed by them.<br>
<br>
The source code for Guide itself is... well... less impressive.<br>
Actually, it's downright embarrassing. This is mostly due to its long<br>
and tangled history.<br>
<br>
In mid-1992, I quit my job and started writing Guide 1.0. By early<br>
1993, I was able to get a batch of CDs burned and could advertise in<br>
_Sky & Telescope_. Jari Suomela posted a scan of that ad a few years back :<br>
<br>
<a href="http://clayhole.com/20180121_193520.jpg" id="OWA751a680d-e810-a6c7-436c-bf9348e83e61" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">http://clayhole.com/20180121_193520.jpg</a> [0]<br>
<br>
I may have exaggerated a little when I wrote about the "intuitive<br>
user interface". I'd stand by the rest of the description, though.<br>
This was a DOS program; Windows was in its infancy. Screenshots :<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.projectpluto.com/temp/guide1.png" id="OWAcabb9ff3-cfac-787a-396b-3eb74098f3d7" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://www.projectpluto.com/temp/guide1.png</a><br>
(default view of sky around Big Dipper)<br>
<a href="https://www.projectpluto.com/temp/guide1_b.png" id="OWA993f93c5-308b-5b50-19f0-e47a70cf39df" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://www.projectpluto.com/temp/guide1_b.png</a><br>
(zoomed-in view of Jupiter & Galilean moons)<br>
<br>
Its main feature was having the Hubble GSC, version 1.0, as the<br>
basis for star charts. The program seems almost unbelievably primitive<br>
to me now, but almost every copy I sent out resulted in a reply saying<br>
the user was dumbfounded at how good it was. Among other advantages,<br>
Guide 1.0 had ~15 million stars; I don't think anything before that<br>
went past the SAO catalog's ~250,000.<br>
<br>
Over the subsequent two decades, I sold enough copies to keep me<br>
fed and indoors. (I'm good at math and physics and software. I am not<br>
a good businessman.) I also had those underlying libraries, and they<br>
came in very handy when I had the occasional contract for other<br>
astronomy-related software. Which is what I do now.<br>
<br>
Meanwhile, I kept developing the Guide software itself. I added a<br>
Windows 3.1 port, and eventually a 32-bit port for Windows 95 and<br>
later. And I added various features, and still more features... those<br>
of you who have developed software long-term may see where this is going.<br>
<br>
At present, the source code for Guide 9 is a maze of twisty<br>
passages. It compiles with Microsoft Visual C/C++, version 5.0<br>
(really, _really_ old!). It uses the Microsoft Foundation Classes<br>
(MFC) for the user interface; among programmers, these were widely and<br>
accurately referred to as "Microsoft Frustration Classes".<br>
<br>
Back in 1992, as a 27-year-old with a steel trap memory, I saw no<br>
need to document code that only I would ever look at. As a 60-year-old,<br>
I look at bits of it and think "well, that code obviously works, but<br>
I've no idea what young me was thinking".<br>
<br>
There are vast parts of it that were effectively bolted on over<br>
time, as if somebody built a wagon, then decided to turn it into a<br>
car, then decided it would be nice if the car could float or fly if<br>
needed. This, incidentally, is one reason why much of the user<br>
interface for Guide is less consistent than it ought to be; the more<br>
recent additions reflect some lessons learned, but the older interface<br>
items make me recoil in terror. I wouldn't want a potential client to<br>
judge my coding based on this stuff.<br>
<br>
The insides of the code reflect an overly confident programmer who<br>
didn't check error conditions and had a set of coding practices that<br>
make me wonder how it all ever ran as well as it did. They would cause<br>
any current programmer to turn pale.<br>
<br>
I managed to keep things going well enough to release Guide 9. But<br>
after that, I moved on to other projects.<br>
<br>
I think what I need to do, at minimum, is to post the current<br>
Guide source code to GitHub, with suitable warnings. (Probably source<br>
code for Charon as well, which is similarly horrid and embarrassing.)<br>
I would not really expect anybody to take on the task of making any<br>
sense out of it; the best use of it may well be to somebody who needs<br>
specific bits of the code.<br>
<br>
-- Bill<br>
<br>
[0] If you're interested in running truly ancient astronomy software...<br>
I've also posted the ISO for Guide 1.0 :<br>
<br>
<a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZYR4Ir9fKpdduObfLTkL6V_tvRB9R-xz/view?usp=drive_link" id="OWA5cc5c372-c20b-0912-720a-e68ae94bc1a5" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZYR4Ir9fKpdduObfLTkL6V_tvRB9R-xz/view?usp=drive_link</a><br>
<br>
It's about 215 MBytes, and you'll probably need something such as<br>
DOSBox to run it. Load the CD, and run the 'install' program.<br>
<br>
--<br>
guide-user mailing list<br>
guide-user@projectpluto.com<br>
<a href="http://projectpluto.com/mailman/listinfo/guide-user_projectpluto.com" id="OWA8ecb02ba-db21-1b52-bada-5c0d515e8e8c" class="OWAAutoLink" data-auth="NotApplicable">http://projectpluto.com/mailman/listinfo/guide-user_projectpluto.com</a><br>
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